Neepitudo Maior

[dancinghorse]

The week's lesson neep for your delectation. I'm zoonked unto exhaustion, but the Shattered Dance revision is all done but the last quick look-through before l'editrice gets it on Thursday, and other projects are bubbling along. This week will be about first draft plus mentees plus horsies plus whatever else pops up.

I went to see keed on Wednesday, which was his 11th birthday. I love the drive over there. It's 45 miles across the diagonal of Tucson, past the Desert Museum and through the Tucson Mountains and Saguaro National Park West. Keed was looking clean, as in newly bathed, and mellow and content, hanging out with the boys: wise old red QH, wise old Lusitano, and younger Andy gelding almost his age to the day, whom he instantly took to. Poor Gaudia was in purdah because she kept reminding said gelding that he was a stallion until rather recently, but she was also clean and clearly happy to have her human to herself at last. (Teacher reports that they're having wonderful walks out all around the area, just hanging out and being together.)

So keed got his birthday baby carrots and hugs and a nice visit, and didn't get all upset when I left. He was hanging with the guys, you know. Keed has never had geldings to hang out with before. He likes it.

Meanwhile, back at Hormone-Soup Central, I've been doing lesson homework and noodling with various of the locals. Camilla has matured tremendously of late, has gone from a frankly scary, often explosive IED to a wise and kind mare with a real inclination to teach. She feels solid and reliable and, who'd'a thunk it, trustworthy.

Ephiny (who will be 4 this month) is now on the roster in a very low-key way. I brought her in yesterday to groom her and work on manners. Very interesting to see how she reacts to Trainer Bod--if I go at her with what she considers aggressive body language, and by this I just mean basic firm and clear "I am the alpha here," she goes into alpha mode herself, even as far as shoulder-slamming and threat-kicking. Whereas if I walk in softly, keep everything quiet, keep my center of balance low and myself centered, barely brush her with a finger to move her over, and ask gently, she's eager to obey. The quieter I am, the more willing and obedient she is. Fascinating.

This morning was about the lessons, as it usually is. Pandora got the nod this time, as Pook is probably three months away from being ridable (but his feet, says the Wonder Shoer, are doing great) and on that timetable, she's probably going to Dallas. She was in screaming, squatting, peeing heat, which made grooming and tacking up interesting, but the minute she got out in the arena, she was 100% business and so was Pooka. I was proud of them both.

She was as stiff as a board. Nothing to do with soundness--it was a difference of opinion as to whether, and why, she should reshape her body after all these years and go straight instead of being a left banana. She had been thinking about it, but clearly decided she's not in favor. So, we did a lot of wiggly bits in walk and trot, and a lot of me keeping my eyes on the viewfinder, and that defused every spook (magic!) but didn't loosen her up. Finally Teacher got on with Seat of Steel and much more knowledgeable rein aids and discusssed the situation, and decided to do something most horses would never tolerate: she tightened the noseband as far as it would go. Normally this is a bad idea, locks the jaw and upsets the horse, but Pandora sighed and immediately relaxed. She wanted the bit stabilised and she wanted her jaw ditto. I need, when I'm in funds, to find her a nice, soft padded crank noseband--far too often an instrument of torture, but used properly it's highly adjustable and very soft and comfortable for the horse. (She also needs a somewhat wider bit, but we're working on that.)

At any rate, she was much happier with this arrangement, and did good work. And Teacher was pleased. And wrote

Sunday 4-2-06

Pandora

-ears AND neck as viewfinder a la last week--review and continuation

-by keeping "viewfinder" as soft peripheral focus enables rider to straighten to and focus on line of travel without too much thinking

-easier practiced in walk

-requires more attention to combining seat, leg and rein in trot

-Keep Pandora as true as possible to line of travel. Keep her from drifting through aids.

-Remember (VERY IMPORTANT)
-viewfingers (ears/neck) NOT the main focus
-Focus only half horse length ahead
-"draw a mental line in the dirt half horse length ahead of ears/viewfinder and focus there
-It doesn't matter if you find your attention wavering--gently bring focus back to line of travel--no matter how often :)

-The vertebrae of the neck must stay straight on line of travel--no bend--yet--just keep neck straight

-noseband snug--makes for lighter more effective rein aids
[Visible in practice and contrary to common belief; it's the in thing to be anti-noseband. But what it does is stabilize the jaw and quiet the bit down, which in this horse with her mouth melanomas means she isn't getting bumped irregularly by the bit. She was seriously fussing when I was riding her, and my hands weren't all that bad. With the tighter cavesson she relaxed in her whole body, relaxed her jaw, and went almost totally quiet. Still had some fussing but it was experimentation rather than yawing and fighting. She also stopped going hollow, raised her back and came well up under herself. Very interesting. Teacher said with her like this, it was much easier to use the rein aids and she took much softer, lighter aids.]

-set up "destinations" when riding--ride a straight line towards an object, practicing centering horse over it

-crookedness begins under seat and then ends up in shoulders and neck
keeping soft focus on "viewfinder" enables rider to feel this sooner, and therefore make connections sooner with lesser intensity
[Also it stops the rider from thinking--if she's concentrating on that spot framed by the ears, she's less likely to stiffen up and try to hard; she makes corrections automatically and the horse is dramatically straighter and less fussy.]


Pandora is a challenge, as you can see. She's 19, she's spent half her life bumping around a pasture, she has her own clear ideas about how she should move. But she's coming along and she's really willing; if we can convince her, she'll do anything we ask.

After Pandora, Camilla was all ready and set to be next. We did the usual: jaw massage and poll-flipping, neck flexions until I had the soft, sleepy eye we want to see, then I did a long session in hand. Never did get on her. She was telling me I was leaning in toward her, which made her lean in toward me, go off balance, and start trotting. I had own my space (and not own her drama, no matter how histrionic she got), walk straight and grounded and quiet no matter what she did. And keep the outside rein firm and the inside rein helium-light and trace figures until she softened and stayed in her own space.

Teacher left at this point, but I brought out a very happy Pooka and did more in-hand work. He's much easier, knows how to balance himself and stays in his space, and he was very good about being groomed and bridled directly in front of a quite tempting (and noisy) Pandora. She was 10 feet behind him in the run. Apart from some Harley noises as I brought him into the grooming area, he was completely focused on getting ready to work.

We ended up in-handing outside, up the driveway and around and down and into the holding pen where he stayed with hay while I turned the mares out. It was good practice and he was happy. He can have as much of this as he wants, the shoer says, and in a few weeks he can get boots and be ground-driven and long-reined and longed as well. And this is good.

And now I am lesson-comatose. But it's a good coma.

Comments

[raithen.livejournal.com]

Very interesting to see how she reacts to Trainer Bod--if I go at her with what she considers aggressive body language, and by this I just mean basic firm and clear "I am the alpha here," she goes into alpha mode herself, even as far as shoulder-slamming and threat-kicking. Whereas if I walk in softly, keep everything quiet, keep my center of balance low and myself centered, barely brush her with a finger to move her over, and ask gently, she's eager to obey. The quieter I am, the more willing and obedient she is. Fascinating.

Ah alpha mares. Yes. This is it with Joy, too. pLus a generous supply of crunchies. :D. Clicker training is Her Thing. She ADORES it and will put up with even the evil shedding comb (tis the season) if there are clicks and treats. And she STOOD, calmly, sweetly, without digging to China OR eating the hitching rail at which she was tied, for several minutes while I helped Mom with some fencing. So. Proud!

Also: what size bit for Pandora? - I have several larger bits I cannot use and would be happy to pop one in the mail if a suitable size/configuration matched up with the spares....

Oy with teh comatose myself. More comments may follow as I finish reading this. Just got in from riding meself (Shaughns for a road hack, Joy for round pen work -can't WAIT for an arena to work on straight lines again!). Need more hydration and nutrition.

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Pandora needs a 6.25" eggbutt French (a regular snaffle hits her palate--Lipps have low, fleshy palates) or KK special training bit with the curved bars or MAYBE a mullen mouth, or a 6.5" loose-ring French or regular KK. Must be dressage-legal (no Mylers or mixed metals). They do make such bits in Europe, but they cost $150 or more. I can find one for $75 or so in England and will probably end up with that.

With Lipps over 16 hands, everything comes in Behemoth size.

[raithen.livejournal.com]

I'll check, but chances are my french links are all gonna fall just short on the size scale. Damn, sorry - I'd have been happy to give them a good home. And I think the 6 1/4 or so eggbut we have is a regular snaffle.

Walkers share the low palate thing, so I've got the french links. What I DIDN'T know when I was buying initially is that their mouths are deceptively small for horses of their size. Joy, who is 15.2 hh rides COMFORTABLY in a 4 3/4" loose ring KK bit.... So I have a couple of 5 1/4 - 5 1/2" french links (full cheek and eggbutt) that are Too. Big. But not behemoth, I'm afraid. And the behemoths are all regular snaffles.

Why oh why must the right bits be So. Expensive? I've also noticed that KK bits show up on ebay now and again - you may get lucky...

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

We thought we did last week--6.5 KK. It came. Was a 5.25. Seller refused to take it back, accused us of "wanting a freebie." Bitch. Lying bitch, at that. I do Not know where a normal-sized KK becomes a "6.5 Draft Horse Snaffle."

[raithen.livejournal.com]

GAH. *black looks direction of lying bitch*

ok, being a 1/4 inch out on your measurements, I get. but and inch and a quarter out? C'mon!!

I presume you have added a note to her seller profile/reliability thingy on ebay? And will you be able to resell the bit? SUCH a pain. Gah. Hex on her!!

[raithen.livejournal.com]

ooh with the viewfinder, too - I was working on connecting soft eyes to my center today (and not to my hands, which really should be taken away from me for 5 years or so, till I find my seat. *sigh*) and to connect that to Joy - overthinking was a problem ;).

[monder.livejournal.com]

Yay neep!
Yay draft!
Yay Happy horses!

:) sounds almost like Keed has been hanging out with the guys telling horror stories about living in hormone central !

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

I'll bet he is. He certainly seems mellow.

Nosebands

[schhgsd.livejournal.com]

Interesting on the nosebands. I imagine as with all tools, they only become "too much" when they are used over-zealously or harshly. I just put a noseband on my gelding for the first time last week. He'd spent 3 years in a top Park Horse barn here in California, and was pushed and pushed to the point that he'll still explode when he sees a bitting rig, or if you run the reins through a martingale. He is not, in his heart, an English pleasure horse. So cavessons really threw him for a loop and caused all kinds issues with his brain. He went to a western trainer for 6 weeks of easy, low movement. Then he came back to me, and I just used the bridle without until last week. Last weeks introduction went pretty well though, no flashbacks to spending hours in a stall in a bitting rig with his head in the ceiling!
I like the "viewfinder" idea, I think I'll try that tomorrow when I ride, I actually have TWO horses here to ride tomorrow. :)

Michelle

Re: Nosebands

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Abuse situations are really hard--and you never know what will set the horse off. I'm glad yours has you finally.

Have fun with your two rides. :)

Re: Nosebands

[schhgsd.livejournal.com]

It has been a journey. At 4, they sent him to a friend's barn, gelded him, and put up that for sale sign. He's a super horse- he just didn't want to do what they were asking.Thought I should clarify he wasn't at the trainer's barn under MY care. :)

Re: Nosebands

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

What breed is he? Poor thing.

No, I didn't think you were in charge of the abuse. ===80

Re: Nosebands

[schhgsd.livejournal.com]

He's an Arabian gelding- Varian Bred on top (Huckleberry Bey) and Egyptian on the bottom. Nice horse, good brain, I love him to death.

Re: Nosebands

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

I figured Arab but thought I'd ask. I'm glad he has you love him now. :)

It's amazing he has such a good brain after all that. Like kladruber1's stallion, he was haltered and yet he's a sweetheart, and his babies are wonderful people ponies.

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

Tara, who is much taller than me, can alpha Pluto with impunity. When I alpha him he tends to shoulder me over and stop listening. Dammit. I still pull out the alpha in dire situations ("Get off me NOW!") but mostly I have to be soft with him if I want to have cooperation.

Also Tara doesn't have to deal with him later. The boy has a memory like an elephant.

So what's up with the alpha thing? I thought we were supposed to alpha every horse that came along, but obviously it doesn't always work.

[raithen.livejournal.com]

So what's up with the alpha thing? I thought we were supposed to alpha every horse that came along, but obviously it doesn't always work.

I've been reading Alex Kurland's book on clicker training, and she makes a rather valid point (I think Mary Midkiff says the same, and I am sure others do too): sure, we can be Alpha all the time and get our horses to work for us - but if you look in a herd, the alpha mare rarely has *Friends.* So, if we want partnership, we need respect, of course, but it needs to be a mutual thing, and it can't just be about us bossing our horse. I'm bastardizing the message, but I hope I am conveying the idea....

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Height doesn't have a lot to do with it. I'm shorter than a lot of people and horses Behave when I'm around.

I think you've got something there about the alpha thing. Also I think it gets oversimplified. In a Lipp herd where most of them would be alphas in any other context, you have more of a fluid interrelationship. Camilla pushes Pandora pushes Capria pushes Camilla, for example. Capria being bottom of the heap (as a beta and the rest are all alphas) but she used to ride on keed's coattails and keed out-alphaed all the mares here (though the old QH at Teacher's alphas him), so Camilla still accepts that order of things.

Basically with a herd like this, you go in there as the lead horse, and the others are your partners and buddies. My alphas all have friends. Pandora's is Tia--which is a riot--and Camilla and Ephiny are close as well, though Camilla also will hang with Pandora. And Tia bops around with everybody. Capria has always been a bit of a loner; keed used to hang with her, and now she hangs with Pandora and the Girlz, but she tends to keep to herself more than the others. She was like that in the herd I bought her from, so it seems to be a feature.

[raithen.livejournal.com]

Le Petit Shaughnessy, who, at 14.2 is the smallest horse in the herd, Rules. The. Roost ;).

And yes to the oversimplified, of course. THis is also a lovely description of your herd.

Joy is a bit like Capria - she is often off by herself, though I sometimes wonder if that is by choice, or because she has Such. Difficulty. being a nice herd horse - she can be a real bitch, in the unpleasant Wants to be Alpha way. Shaughns will show her heels and run the horses if necessary to establish dominance (esp around teh feeder) but she is mostly a benevolent leader. Joy, on the other hand, will charge and bite and flatten ears with apparently no provocation.

She kept trying to charge Beau, our gelding, who was standing outside teh roundpen during yesterday's ride....

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

I used to be alpha to everything and everyone, and then I got this dog who I had to work with for a year before she accepted me as dominant, and then I got this horse who ditto. Apparently I am now a pussycat.

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

It's a curse. I was surrounded by alpha mares tonight, and the energy coming off them was enough to give me a headache.

But I'm still Queen, by Damn!

Alpha Thoughts

[schhgsd.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to jump onboard in the middle of a discussion, but I was having a similar discussion with some dog trainers the other day. I train and do stuff at a high level, and I do NOT want to always be Alpha to my dog. I want him about to think and move independantly of me if necessary, and it is necessary at times. So I think it IS about a partnership, and fluid roles that can change when needed, in any higher level of working with animals.

Re: Alpha Thoughts

[raithen.livejournal.com]

welcome aboard! and thanks for the input! also, if you are interested in cross applicaitons of things, as I just said to plutosonium, I just put some links to another take on alpha-ness in my journal - Mark Rashid's idea of "passive leadership.".

Re: Alpha Thoughts

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Hey! Welcome to the monkey house!

Partnership is what it is. You must be pack or herd leader to be safe (humans are squishy), but it works better with the smart ones if you go for cooperation rather than domination.

I can back down 1500lbs of opinionated Lipizzan if I have to, but she gets a vote (even if I retain veto power) and it's important that she be a willing partner. My rule is, it must be safe for all concerned. If it's safe, good. If not, you get nailed. Tia is learning that now; she's in testing phase, first one since she was tiny, and she will kick. She's learning that's a Bad Idea around one's human.

Re: Alpha Thoughts

[raithen.livejournal.com]

Testing phases. when do they grow out of those?

oh, JJ this weekend. SHe is even testing head mare Shaughnessy!

[raithen.livejournal.com]

hey - i just posted a couple of links to Mark Rashid's take on the alpha thing over in my journal. One of them is an audio file that *may* not be avail that much longer. I thought you might be interested.

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[kerlin.livejournal.com]

Interesting about the alpha, and I suspect a large part of the difference in interaction between geldings and mares. The quieter I am with Tristan, the more he needs to push back. Low totem pole horse seeing an opening for dominance, possibly. But if I am firm and careful about my space and his space, he is much more mindful - and he will instantly cower at any truly pushy body language on my part.

Why a crank and not a flash or drop noseband?

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

Flash would pinch--she has melanomas in the corners of her mouth. Drop, ditto. Crank doesn't pinch her lips. Also if adjusted to be snug but not cranked, it's soft and padded and very comfortable, which she will appreciate.

She Really Really Liked the tight noseband. I've never seen anything like it. Her whole body including her jaw relaxed, her back came up, and she went right into the bit. Teacher said the loose bit probably bumps the tumors, and while there's no pain and she's vet-cleared to be ridden in a bit, they must feel weird. The cavesson supports her jaw so she can carry the bit, and she needs much softer rein aids and is much softer in return.

Go figure. I'd never have believed it if I hadn't seen it.

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

I rode Playboy in bitless bridles for years because of the melanomas. I was pretty taken aback two years when my trainer found a great big bit that he could use. I thought that was it for bits and us.

That crank noseband you pointed a link to does look nice and squooshy.

[dancinghorse.livejournal.com]

I found one for $29.95 that looks good--seems to be made by the seller. I'll probably order that and see how it looks. Soft and squooshy is what she needs.