dancinghorse: (army)
[personal profile] dancinghorse
Brought to my attention to by one of my Lipizzan-group buddies:

Some enterprising soul is selling an Advance Reading Copy of one of my forthcoming books on ebay. Listed as "unread," no less.

My agent is contacting Roc's sales department to request that Mr. Entrepreneur be summarily and permanently removed from Roc's list of ARC recipients.

For those not familiar with how publishing works, ARC's or bound galleys are sent out several months in advance by publishers to reviewers and booksellers and other parties who may be helpful in promoting and selling the book. These ARC's are limited in distribution and are not to be sold, though they often are as collector's items--however, the ethics of the practice dictate that the seller be so kind as to wait until the book has officially been published.

Posting it on ebay for $49.95 (cover price is listed as $16.00), which is 100% clear profit and of which the author sees not one cent, is not the point of the exercise, people. I particularly like the way the photo of the ARC shows prominently and clearly the label, NOT FOR SALE.

Don't you just love the honest, ethical, and considerate nature of our modern society?

Date: 2004-07-31 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janni.livejournal.com
And if the ethical case is not enough, the fact that the copy is "unread" should be enough to tell Roc that this is a bad use of their promotional funds, as the seller in question isn't reviewing the books he's being sent.

Date: 2004-07-31 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] christymarx.livejournal.com
You have, I trust, notified eBay to yank the illegal auction? As the author, you can claim High Dudgeon and Copyright.

Date: 2004-07-31 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miintikwa.livejournal.com
Oh my GAWD!

As someone who reviews books on the side, I am utterly flabbergasted. I can't even imagine doing something like that. To me, getting the chance to read an ARC is a gift, and taking advantage of that gift is just SO WRONG!

I'm ashamed, and on behalf of the many honest reviewers out there I just have to say 'we're not all like that!'

By the way, I'm new. :) Love your work, I'm reading 'Horse Goddess' at the moment, and I adore Lippizans and love reading about your horses. I envy you being able to live with them (even though I know they're a lot of work). Hope you don't mind me reading you.

--Kara

Date: 2004-07-31 03:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bdenz.livejournal.com
What Christy Said. eBay should not be party to this crap and be vigilant that it doesn't happen, but if they won't be then bite them in the butt. Shame you can't personally notify the seller that you're on to him/her and are watching this practice unfold. People read those comments about sellers.

Date: 2004-07-31 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] klwilliams.livejournal.com
I used the "ask seller a question" link to ask the seller if he didn't think that selling an ARC marked "Not For Sale" is highly unethical. I'm sure he'd love to hear from all of you, too.

Date: 2004-07-31 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
It must be a day for unethical asshats. Gah. You have my deepest sympathies.

Date: 2004-07-31 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dancinghorse.livejournal.com
Thank you all for your support.

It's not a copyright violation, no, but by selling promo materials in advance of publication, he may be in violation of ebay policy. Ebay has an intellectual-property-rights stipulation, with a section for promotional materials. It's aimed at advance copies of music and films, but I cited it in my query, saying that the ARC is an advance promo for a published book and the seller is not authorized by me as copyright holder or by the publisher as distributor to sell it, and this fact is prominently displayed on the cover, which is photographed in the item listing with NOT FOR SALE clear to read.

I don't know what good this will do, but it was worth a try.

He also has a number of other ARCs for sale, all for October books, and they're all from different publishers. So he's getting hold of ARCs with a clear intent to turn around and sell them at a considerable profit. Six at $49.95--do the math. If he's doing it monthly, he's making a nice little bit of grocery money. Ebay may not be bothered to stop him, but the publishers may want to shut him off, since he's not reading or reviewing any of them.

Btw, [livejournal.com profile] casacorona, I believe at least one of the ARCs is for a Forge book.

Date: 2004-07-31 06:34 pm (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
I wonder if the market for this guy is collectors or just people who really really really want the book now? Because the second case is probably going to be buying the book anyway--I know that when I beg spare ARCs or bound galleys off the nice people at Tor, I *always* buy the hardcover, because I wanted the early copies because I love the authors.

I'm guessing that for fifty bucks, it's collectors, but it's just a thought.

Date: 2004-07-31 09:08 pm (UTC)
djonn: Self-portrait, May 2025 (Default)
From: [personal profile] djonn
Unfortunately, it's possible to deduce from some of the seller information that at least some of the ARCs being sold on eBay are coming from pretty high up in the genre-fic review chain, which puts the PR departments in something of a bind -- a publisher who stops shipping ARCs to those reviewers is potentially cutting itself out of some of the (presumably) more influential review venues in the genre.

Of course, the reviewer's problem with ARCs is that if you don't dispose of them, they accumulate over time until they take over large amounts of bookshelf space. (Two full-size bookcases, double-shelved, plus a couple of further stacks, plus several stacks & a bunch of banker-boxes full of old-fashioned unbound proofs or bound xoxed pages. And growing, now that I'm actively reviewing again.)

You will never see an ARC sent to me for sale on eBay ahead of publication date, though I admit to eyeing some of the more venerable volumes on those shelves from time to time and wondering whether they've appreciated. (FWIW, I am not convinced that eBay's the best place to sell used/collectible books, from a seller's perspective.)

OTOH, I have been known to donate ARCs, very occasionally including prepublication material, to my local SF convention's charity auction. What with my dormant reviewing status over the last couple of years, it's been a good while since prepub's been an issue in that line -- though now that I'm back in the AMAZING stable, that may change again. FWIW, as far as I've ever been able to tell, the bidders at those auctions are in the collector segment -- to the extent that I've known people who buy both the ARC and the first edition of the book. The theory as I've heard it is that one preserves the ARC for collectible value and reads the finished book -- and, thereby, also ensures that the author gets his or her percentage.

Date: 2004-07-31 09:14 pm (UTC)
djonn: Self-portrait, May 2025 (Default)
From: [personal profile] djonn
Posting it on ebay for $49.95 (cover price is listed as $16.00), which is 100% clear profit and of which the author sees not one cent, is not the point of the exercise, people.

While I completely agree with the moral outrage, strictly speaking the seller is not in fact clearing 100% profit on the final selling price -- there's eBay's listing fee to cover, and depending on payment methods accepted, whatever processing fee Paypal or its equivalent is charging these days.

Which is one reason it's been ages since I've sold anything on eBay; the pricing models I see people using, and the kinds of things I'd want to sell (definitely NOT including prepub ARCs), are such that I am not confident I'd make enough to make the time-investment worthwhile.

Date: 2004-07-31 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starfall42.livejournal.com
You could report them to eBay's VeRO program. My impression is that they tend to take the copyright owner's side most of the time. One of the violations is "Offers a copyrighted item in violation of a license with the IP Owner." If it was indeed sent out as "not for sale", this might qualify.

ugh

Date: 2004-07-31 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_siddal_/
Well that's craptacular! I will send the killer BatCat and Pembrose kitty to claw the eyes out after the killer lipizzans finish 'em off ;)

Date: 2004-08-01 04:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maryosmanski.livejournal.com
You need a bigger "gun" than you or even your publisher to put a stop to this.

Just think how quickly J. K. Rowling would be talking lawsuit if an ARC of the next Harry Potter novel were offered on EBay ahead of the publication date!

If not Rowling, then Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Dan Brown, Tom Clancy, Danielle Steele.... You get the idea. These people have publishers and agents who can be reached by your publisher, agent, etc.

Date: 2004-08-01 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smoemeth.livejournal.com
Keeping the scum off eBay is a never-ending crusade. Rob is one of a posse of Tori traders who are constantly reporting concert bootleg auctions to The Powers That Be over there. It occasionally works and the seller gets banned, but then they just come back with a different user ID and it starts all over again.

If there is a silver lining, just consider this: at least he didn't scan the book and put it up on his Web site. :}

Date: 2004-08-01 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sugnwrgwaed.livejournal.com
Found your post through [livejournal.com profile] genreneep - I've been battling with Amazon for quite some time over their allowing "z-shop" and booksellers to offer ARC's (I work in publishing as well as hoping to be published someday). Their response has been a rather Valmont-like "it's beyond my control". You might want to check that site as well to see if anyone is selling your book, and have your publisher's lawyers contact them if it's happening. The lack of ethics of "our modern society" appalls and disgusts me: I love it not.

Date: 2004-08-03 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equesgal.livejournal.com
If you really want to find out who this is just win the auction. You will automatically be sent the name and address of the guy you need to send the money too.

Old ARCs

Date: 2004-08-09 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alanlattimore.livejournal.com
One of the nicer ways I've seen old ARCs passed along is through benefits and auctions, either for a writer with health care expenses or for a cause such as BroadUniverse or the James Tiptree award.

Personally, I return mine to the author (if I can without running up my own expenses) or ask them if there's another reviewer I can pass the copy along to (if I like the work and want to promote it). But then I'm not reviewing a large volume.

Best regards,
Alan
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